Jackie Wagner is an end of life doula working out of Vanderhoof, BC.

[Transcript below]

 

I continue ‘death in the valley’, a short series about preparing for, getting informed about, and accessing care for end of life in the Bulkley Valley.

 

In the first part of the series, I spoke to Kathryn Johnson about when and why to prepare your will – you can find that on smithersradio.com/cick news.

 

Today I’m speaking to Jackie Wagner, a Vanderhoof death doula about her experience with death as a rite of passage for anyone in need of the services a death doula provides. 

 

Over time, there have been many different names for people who accompany people’s end of life journey. end-of-life doula, dying guide, soul midwife. But whatever you call them, the connecting thread throughout their vocation is empowering people at the end of life in choice of medical treatments, dying, and funeral options.

 

As an actual job title, this seems new-ish. It grew in popularity in the 70s As end-of-life awareness grew, this led to non-medical advocates to support families and help them get what they need.

But people have been acting as guides through the process of death to their loved ones and community members for much much longer.

 

Today I’m speaking to Jackie in Vanderhoof from her home office as she guides us through the process of preparing someone and their family for death.

 

 my name's Jackie Wagner. I am the owner of Destiny's door.ca.  I'm an end of life doula and  I handle from diagnosis to after death care.

Can you describe what is a death doula and, and  the role for, for people who, who would, uh, seek out  your work?

 The simplest terms is I'm a concierge to the dying. So when you think about you go to a hotel and you go to the concierge and whatever you ask for, they provide, right? Whether it's concert tickets or how do I get to here or restaurant, that's exactly what an end of life doula does for the dying.

We speak about At the time of death, who, who they want there, who they don't want there.  If they like music, if they wanna be read to, , if there's religion involved, if they want prayers,  spiritual support.

I'm there to help them through the last final step of their next journey.

And my job is to make it peaceful, safe. And loving. And that's basically what I do. And then there's the loved ones too. So when you've got someone who's, who's been going through the dying process, the dying process is very much like, a birth, right?

Because just like in birth, you go through labor and there's delivery. And same with death. There's a laboring and then, and then your body, your soul passes. I have things like I have a death doula bag, so I have this bag over here and it's full of anything and everything you can possibly think of.

 I have resources for books to cover the, like the 11th hour, um, dealing with illnesses, the long term, and going through all of the emotions and the processes.

 What is the history of death, doulas and, and also  why did you choose to become one? Well, death DOIs, they've always been around, so it's only been probably in the last 60, 70 years where we've kind of lost our skills.

If you look into ancient times and you look into our history, you'll find Egypt,  ti Bat India. All of those places are very much in tune with, they would call them soul midwives. Um, and throughout history you will see them. It's only in the last 60, 70 years and, and into the middle Ages that we've lost those skills, especially here in the western side of the country.

 And that's been lost because we've very much turned dying. Into a medical event. It, it went from a personal,  a loving part of that rate of passage for children with their parents, et cetera, to a hospital event where we're now seeing people dying alone, and  not having good deaths.

I'm about, I p everybody deserves to have a good death. And that is very, very important to me. And that's why I don't care about where or how or like I said, I'm not there to judge and I don't care what religion, I personally have no religious beliefs at all. But that doesn't affect what I do because it's not about religion.

It's not about me saying one religion is wrong, or one religious is right. Everybody's path is different. And every experience I have with every person is different. 

And I had one gentleman, he shared things that. You know, he was a pastor, so he, he had lived his whole life and, and did all of his, his whatever he needed to do, right by, by God and it, at the end of the day, he had said that I spoke to him and he had never said things to me that he had never said to anyone in his entire life, and I had only met him that day.

Um, and for me, what it brought, how it, I got to that point, um, my journey probably started.

Well, for seriously started 11 years ago, but I, death has always been around me. Um, I, I had started with pets. I had pets that I had put down and I'd stayed with them and, and went through the, the emotions and, and everything that comes along with that. 11 years ago, I went through the journey with my mother.

She was, uh, 58 years old when she passed. She had spent an unprecedented amount of time in hospice. Hospice is normally maybe a month at most. She was in hospice for 101 days.  She had small cell aggressive, uh, lung cancer that spread very rapidly and quickly. 

And one of the commitments I'd made to my mother after, after I had gone through most of the process was that when I found my way and, and healed that I would find a way to, to do this to, to. To fill in a gap. I recognized right away, even back then, 11 years ago, that there was a gap in our medical, our care aids, our nurses, our doctors, um, all of them do amazing, amazing jobs and they really don't have the time to.

To do what they really want. Most of 'em do want that time to sit and, and to explain to people things like the death rattle or what to expect as their loved one progresses through death. This is, those are things that I come in with. So I, I am actually an added bonus to hospice, to, to the death team. I'm not there to take anything away from anybody.

Um, I don't claim to be care provider. I don't, I don't claim to be a doctor. I do not, uh, direct anybody. I am there as support and to make sure that the person who is dying. Their wishes are being supported, 

When I moved up to Prince George, I started, uh, at the hospice there and really spent a good solid year.

Devoting myself to the hospice. I was a transplant, wasn't working, so it was perfect. I had all the time, so I said, use me up.  And there I had the beautiful experiences and I had, uh, guests pass with me. And it's always, it's not always the same. It's not always the end result that I'm sitting there when they pass.

Mm-hmm. They may not want to, not everybody does want someone there, or they're really adamant on who they want there. My position is just to help them get to wherever they need to get to. It's not a failure on my part. If they don't pass with me, it's. At the end of the day, it's on their terms. 

Society had had started to, to fear. Death doulas because people think, you know, if I talk about death, then I'm gonna die.

 First of all, you are gonna die. That's something we all can't escape. And just because we talk about dying doesn't mean we're gonna die tomorrow. We all talk about winning lottery. Does it happen right away? Nope. 

Having a conversation lightens it, it makes it easier to talk about and to be able to ask those questions. The, the easier and open the conversation is, 

So to, to understand that someone is going through that and losing every piece of themselves, right? Because they're losing control of everything. They can't hold onto anything. And that is a powerful thing to understand.

What is the role of a death doula or what's been your experience maybe. With people who want to, they wanna use mate medical assistance in dying.

Would a death doula typically, like, are you brought into a lot of those kind of situations? 

So a lot of doctors don't know I'm out there,  I'm still getting my name out there.  And yes, I can provide support. Um, someone going through MAID still has to go through all the death process. That doesn't change. Right. They still have to, to make sure they have their power As attorney, the wills, you know, it's good to have your advanced care and advanced care planning.

Needs to be understood is different from power of attorney and all of those things. This is specifically for your end of life care. Someone who has power of attorney isn't necessarily has to be that person. And there's some great resources out there. Uh, the, the province, British Columbia. Um, my voice is something to look at and.

Yeah, and that gives you from a to z of things to do. It gives you things to write down, um, uh, between your wills, all of those things to direct you. I also have workbooks that I use. Um, something as simple as, uh, I'm dead now,  it's, and it's just like a workbook that I can give to them. And it is, it's little things like my wishes.

Um, Passwords, email accounts, like all of those little things you don't think of. Uh, insurance information. Um, financial properties. What else am I flipping through? Important documents, important things to say. Letters that you wanna write to people. 

I have so many different resources for ceremonies. Those are things that are important that, uh, people want. Rituals. Rituals are very important to you and you don't think about the rituals, a rate of passage.

And as the twin, they need to tell their life story in some way or form, whether it's, uh, verbally through pictures, through, um, Through video, through letter. Those are the things that, it's part of the dying process and part of, um, them being able to move on is that they need to have, they need to know their legacies being carried on.

Something that I'm curious about as well is, 

 Are there resources for people who. Can't actually afford to have a death doula, but this would be something that they think would be of assistance to someone who they know is nearing end of life. 

 But if, if money and, and, and budget really is that barrier, how can they. Feel most prepared for a loved one who's reaching end of life?

Um, I would say hospice. Hospice is  something. I work very quick or very closely with the van who Vander Hospice here. I work very closely with them and that's how you get me for free. So the, in some hospice it depends because there's still a lot of pushback from some hospices. 

I know that there's some hospices I can't get into right now because they feel that there's a threat. They really don't understand that I'm not there to, I don't take away beds, I don't take away funding. I am just an added. Bonus. Mm-hmm. Uh, for the end of life care part, like I said, I can sit with that person.

I have that time. I can spend two hours and sit by their bed or, or four hours, six hours, whatever's needed. But hospice also provides all of that information. Hospice will provide. Referrals for, for things that you need. Like I have lawyer referrals, I have all of those things if, if anybody needs them.

And like I said, I'm not, uh, grief support. However, I can still support.  For the most part, I would say to, for me personally.  Of course, I need to pay the, pay the mortgage.

I need to, I need to pay for life. So, you know, there, there is a cost to it and the cost is not. It's not cheap, but when people are thinking about death and think about how hard that journey is to realize that I'm taking that journey unconditionally. Yeah. Um, and that, that, that there is a toll on myself too, right.

Going through each death because as they lead me, I still carry them and I will carry them along with me for the rest of my life.  If someone contacted me and they said, look, Jackie, I really need your services. I really, you know, my mom needs your services, whatever. Right. I wouldn't, I would never turn anyone down because I would never want anyone to, that's my whole point of doing this.

Yeah. This is, I'm not about to be a millionaire. I'm not about to break the bank. I just wanna make sure people have good deaths and no one should have to die alone if they choose not to. So it, you know, it's like my rate is expensive, but I'm also a sliding scale. If that's not what you can do, what can you do?

Let's, let's work something out.   And that's why I work so closely with the hospice. I'm very much a go-to for her.

Uh, the, the coordinator will gimme a call and Jackie you up to this. And this is what I have. And I've dealt with,  elderly, I've dealt with from the point of where they're within. Minutes of passing and me coming in and they pass with me to, I've had three or four months before because it's a terminal illness.

Mm-hmm. Uh, to, you know, just a couple hours. I had one where I was there for 10 minutes, but I was there. Said what? I, I did what I do cuz I do, I have. I, I intuitively know what to say and what to do and Yeah. And I can, I'm really good at feeling the room reading people. That's, that's, that's a really important thing.

And for me it's a, I can't explain it. I just know. Yeah. I, it, it is. I know when there's other presence in the room, I know when they leave, I, I, I, it's the energy I feel. I, I'm very much connected and for me, there's no fear. And I think that's, That's part of what I bring into that room is I'm not afraid. So bringing that communis, and I think that's that energy that I, I transfer on to people is that, that that relief of, of peace and safeness and you know, to, to know that someone really is there just for them.

Yeah. You know, and that's important too, to, to be there just for them and separating it as an end of life doula. It can be challenging at times because you do have to, when you go into someone, you need to, you need to be there for them. It's, at no point is any of that, visit any of that time about me. Not a second of it.

It is all about the people I'm around and specifically the dying person. Secondary, they're loved ones, which I've long since given up saying family, because family, it's loved ones. Family comes in so many different, different,  boxes. 

You know, I wanna make sure that they're okay and they're getting through their days and yeah. And stuff. And, and for myself, I have to do the same thing when,  I go to see a client, you know, my, my bubble. Like we all have to have a bubble. We have to have a way of releasing. For myself, my bubble is my vehicle.

So when I am, I get to the place, I sit for a second, I compose myself. I focus. Soon as that vehicle gets shut off, boom. I'm, I'm in hospice mode. I'm in end of life mode. When I get back into my vehicle again, that's where I, you know, I, I do my little ritual of, you know, listening to some music on the way, diffusing myself, um, when I get home at once, uh, my journey's ended with that specific person.

 

My last question is what would  be something unexpected or something that you find surprises people about, um, you or what you provide, or maybe even something that you have in your bag that people are like, what's that doing that, you know what I mean?

What I guess would be something that people find surprising? Um, I think for me it's that energy. They find it surprising about that they don't. They don't realize that death is, it's, it's something that, I don't know, they think it's so more and it, there really is. It's not, it's. It's a rite of passage.

 I have that positivity that I, I make death not so scary. And I think, I think they're surprised at the end of it that I do bring this sense of calm and that I'm able to, um, address things that they didn't even realize. You know, you think about how death shapes a person, you know?

Society has really beat down on us and taught us to fear it, to run from it when we really should be embracing it.

It's something we know. Everybody knows it's gonna happen to you, so why not do it the way you want to? Yeah, go out with a bang or go, you know,

enjoying it to the fullest and those final days, that's where you wish. Anything and everything, and that's why I give anything and everything without a second thought. 

Hospitals can be pretty cold and even hospice hospices, a lot of them are quite beautiful, but it's still. It doesn't have that quite, that home feel. And there's so many things people don't know. You don't have to die in hospital. You don't have to die in hospice. You can die at home. 

 There's very easily easy things to do to allow this. the biggest problem right now with, at-home ones that people are finding is finding the resources. Mm-hmm. So the LPNs and, and the cares that need to be there, and, and that just goes to our medical,  shortage are the ongoing problem that we're seeing.

And, and that's why. Me stepping in and end of life doulas. It, it takes a little bit of the off of, um, the professionals, the medical professionals and,  I come to hold their hand. I don't come to take anything away. You know, I help with those questions that, uh, the family members don't understand.

Uh, little things like going in when someone's. When I first meet someone, the first thing I bring them in is a notebook and a and a pen. That notebook and a pen is to write down anything they think of, anything they wanna talk to their doctors about, anything, their family, anything they wish they want brought in.

And that's something so simple, something so little that you wouldn't think of it, but it's quite profound to have. Yeah. You know, and those are, those are those little gifts that I have that those little things that you don't realize that I have am my Dilla bag. 

Jackie, was there anything that I didn't ask about that you think is important for people to know about what you do? Um, you know, your services or, or yourself? Well, I just, I think for my services, it's, I'm here. Give me a call. Yeah, send me a text. You know, I'm, I'm open.

I want, I want, uh, people to have good deaths  and that's why I'm very clear on, you know, if you can't afford me, Get me through hospice, you know, and I have no problem saying that I work with hospice because like I said, it's, it's about what I do, not what I make.

Okay, so I found you by actually just Googling,  death doulas, I think Death doulas, bulky valley or something like that. But what's the best way for people to find you? Contact and contact you? I have a few ways.  There's my website, which is www dot destiny's door.ca. Mm-hmm.

There you can send me a message. There's my phone number on there. I'm also on, uh, Instagram, Destiny's Door, and also on Facebook too. The number on there is a cell phone number and I'm available.

All the time. And that's the thing, like even here at the matter and stuff, they know I'm available 24 hours a day. You know, timing of deaths. You don't get to say, okay, you're gonna die at six o'clock tonight, that's the way it's gonna go. Right. So, you know, it's, it's that availability and that I'm here, I'm not going anywhere.

And even if it's just questions, give me a call, I'm more than happy to answer them. Great. Well, thank you so much for doing this interview. I really, really appreciate it. Oh, thank you so much. It was very exciting. It was fun to do.